List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
- Thread starter FalconHonour
- Start date
Too things do not work here:
Charles V would be engaged to Elizabeth of England since the beginning (instead of Mary Tudor) for a lot of reasons, starting with her age and bloodline meaning who they would marry in 1517 without any opposition (the Spanish Cortes wanted Charles to marry a granddaughter of Ferdinand and Isabella and Elizabeth of England fit the bill as well as her Portuguese’s cousins while Ferdinand II would not do his OTL stunt when Charles is engaged to Catherine’s daughter, excluding the fact who Elizabeth is younger than Charles).
ATL Henry VIII will not marry Beatrice when Eleanor and Isabella of Austria and also Isabella of Portugal are all on the table for him and will be engaged pretty early to one of them. If Eleanor does not marry ATL Henry VIII, she will likely end in Poland, Lorraine or France or in Portugal as wife of John but she will not marry Manuel.
Henry VII’s daughter Mary Tudor, who here will not be engaged in France is extremely unlikely to make her OTL marriages (as her niece would be chosen over her for Charles V) meaning who she could very well end in Denmark as wife of Christian II instead of Isabella of Austria
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in @ordinarylittleme 's defense, Bona did want her eldest daughter to be queen (she didn't particularly care about the others), she didn't particularly care which kingdom, so that could be the reason. And any of Isabella's daughters by the king of England would be a better match for Felipe, since they'd inherit Bari/Rossano (OTL he simply confiscated them after Bona's death IIRC). OTOH, one of Charlotte's daughters can easily take the place of a French proxy bride if Sigismund's Habsburg first wife dies as scheduled.
Charles VI, Holy Roman Emperor (d.1740.) m Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (d.1750.) in 1708
Leopold II, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1716-1771) m Mariana Victoria of Spain (b.1718-.1781) in 1733 with issues
Maria Elisabeth (b.1736-1780) a nun
Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1738-.1815) m a)Maria Isabella of spain (b.1739-.1763) , b)MariaKunigunde of Saxony (b.1740-.1826)
Maria Victoria (b.1759-.1763)
Stillborn son (1763)
Charles VII, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1767-.?) m Duchess Elisabeth of Württemberg (b.1767-.?) with issues
Franz I Karl (b. 1790-.?) m
Maria Kunigunde (b. 1792-.?)
Friedrich Joseph (b. 1794-.?)
Maria Elizabeth (b. 1796-.?)
Maria Anna (b. 1798-.?)
Maria luisa (b. 1800-.?)
Charles (b. 1802-.?)
Maria Leopaldine (b. 1770-?) m Pedro IV, King of Portugal (b. 1771-.?) with issues
Maria Johanna (b.1773-.?) m Ferdinand, Duke of Modena (b. 1770-.? with issues
Maria Christina (.1778-.)
Maria Amalia (b.1781-.?) m William I of Württemberg (b.1781-.?) with issues
William II Württemberg (b. 1797-.?)
Maria Elizabeth (b. 1800-.?)
Maria Dorothea (b. 1802-?)
Maria Elisabeth (.1783-.)
Maria Christina (b.1741-.1744)
Maria Theresa (b.1744-.1813) m Charles Maximilian, Elector Palatine *(b. 1741-.1800) with issues
Franz Joseph, Elector Palatine (b. 1760-1801) m Princess Augusta Wilhelmine of Hesse-Darmstadt (b.1765-.1792) with issues
Maximilian Elector Palatine (b.1785-.?)
Maria Caroline (b.1789-?)
Maria Elisabeth (b.1792-.?)
Ludwig (.1768.)
Archduke Leopold of Austria (b.1748-.1821) m Maria Beatrice d'Este (b.1750-.1829) with issues
Ferdinand, Duke of Modena (b.1770-.1830) m Maria Johanna of Austria (b.1773-.?) with issues
Ferdinand, Duke of Modena (b. 1792-.?)
Maria Beatrice (b. 1795-?)
Maria Christina (b. 1798-.?).
Maria Claudia (b. 1801-?)
Maria Victoria (b.1772-.?) m Ferdinand II, Duke of Parma (b. 1774-.?) with issues
Maria Elisabeth (.1775.)
Maria Caroline (. 1778)
Maria Christina (b.1782-.?) m Philip, King of Naples (b.1783-.?) with issues
Maria Luisa (b., 1787-.?) m
Maria Caroline (b.1752-.1827) m Ferdinand I, Duke of Parma (1751-.1802) with issues
Maria Victoria (b.1770-.1830)m Charles Emmanuel V (b.1770-.?) with issues
Ferdinand II, Duke of Parma (b. 1774-.?) m Maria Victoria of Modena (b.1772-.?) with issues
Ferdinand III, Duke of Parma (b. 1792-.?)
Maria Victoria Fernanda (b. 1795-?)
Maria Leopaldine (b. 1779-.1781)
Maria Anna (. 1756)
Maximilian (b.1758-.1763)
Maria Theresa (b.1717-.1780.)m Charles III of Spain (b.1716-.1788.)
Carlos, Duke of Calabria (b.1733-1739)
Philip VI of Spain (b. 1736-.1801) m Maria Elisabeth of Saxony (1736–1818) with issues
Charles IV of Spain (b. 1752-1825) m Maria Luisa of Parma (b.1751-.1819) with issues
Carlos Felipe (b.1770-.1773)
Carlos (b.1774-.1778)
Felipe (1776-.1782)
Carlos Louis (b.1779-1783)
Fernando VII of Spain (b. 1784-.?) m Maria Isabella of Naples (b.1785-.?) with issues
Maria Carlotta (b.1787-.?) Joao VII, King of Portugal (b. 1787-.?) with issues
Carlos Felipe (b.1789-.?) m Maria Theresa, Princess of Pera (b. 1787-.?) with issues
Jaime (b.1790-?)
Maria Isabella (b.1792-.?)
Maria Luisa (b.1795-.?)
Maria Theresa (b.1753-?) m Louis XVI, King of France (b. 1750-.?) with issues
Felipe Infante of Spain (b.1755-1809) m Maria Anna Luisa, Princess of Pera (b.1756-.1823) with issues
Peter Infante of Spain and Portugal (b.1776-.?) m Maria Anna of Savoy (b.1775-.?) with issues
Fernando (b.1758-.1765)
Maria Anna (b.1762-.1768)
Stillborn son
Stillborn daughter
Maria Isabella (b.1739-.1763) m Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1738-.1815) with issues
Carlos Fernando, King of Naples (b.1740-.1814) m Isabella of Parma (b.1741-.?) with issues
Carlos II of Naples (b. 1763-.1823) m Marie Teresa de France (b.1763-.?) with issues
Carlos (b.1780-.1782)
Philip, King of Naples (b.1783-.?) m Maria Christina of Modena (b.1782-.?) with issues
Maria Isabella (b.1785-.?) m Fernando VII of Spain (b. 1784-.?) with issues
Maria Christina (b.1787-.?)
Maria Anna (b.1790-.?)
Maria Amalia (b. 1792-.?)
Maria Luisa (b.1795-.?)
Felipe (b.1767-.1770)
Maria Theresa (b.1770-.?) m Louis XVII, King of France (b. 1770-.?) with issues
Fernando (b.1773-.1839)
Leopoldo (b.1775-.1840)
Fernando Infante of Spain (b.1745-1789) m Maria Luisa of Portugal (b.1753-.1840) with issues
Peter Infante of Spain and Portugal (b.1770-.1820) m Maria Antonia of Savoy (b.1772-.?) with issues
Maria Anna (.1750)
Maria Christina (.1753)
Maria Caroline (.1756)
Maria Anna (b.1718-.1768) m Joseph I of Portugal (b.1714-.1777) with issues
Maria Theresa, Princess of Pera (b. 1734-1823) m Louis, Dauphin of France (1729–1765) with issues
Louis XVI, King of France (b. 1750-.?) m Maria Theresa of Spain (b.1753-?) with issues
Louis XVII, King of France (b. 1770-.?) m Maria Theresa of Naples (b.1770-.?) with issues with
Maria Theresa Madame Royale (b. 1772 .?) m Louis Philippe, Duke of Orleans (b. 1773-.?) with issues
Louis Joseph, Duke of Anjou (b.1775-.?) m Maria Josefa of Bavaria (b.1774-.?)
Elizabeth (.1780-.)
Marie Louise (b.1752-.?) m Charles Emmanuel IV (b.1751-.?) with issues
Charles Emmanuel V (b.1770-.?) m Maria Victoria de Bourbon Parma (b.1770-.1830) with issues
Maria Antonia (b.1772-.?) m Peter Infante of Spain and Portugal (b.1770-.1820) with issues
Maria Anna (b.1775-.?) m Peter Infante of Spain and Portugal (b.1776-.?) with issues
Maria Luisa (.1778-.)
Henriette Anne (b.1752-.?) m Joao VI, King of Portugal (b.1753-.1821) with issues
Elizabeth (b.1755-.?) ,nun
Louis Stanislas , duke berry (b.1756-.?) m Marie Joséphine of Savoy (b.1753-.?) with issues
Louis Charles Berry (b.1772-.?) m Amalie of baden (b.1776-.?) with issues
Marie Antoinette ,Mademoiselle de Berry (b. 1772-.?) m Frederick August II king of Saxony (b. 1768-.?) with issues
Sophie (.1780-.)
Marie Teresa (b.1763-.?) m Carlos II of Naples (b. 1763-.1823) with issues
Joseph II of Portugal (b. 1736-.1793) m Marie Adélaïde de France (b.1732-.1800) with issues
Joao VI, King of Portugal (b. 1753-.1821) m Henriette Anne dE France (b.1752-.?) with issues
Pedro IV, King of Portugal (b. 1771-.?) m Maria Leopaldine Of Austria (b. 1770-?) with issues
Joao VII, King of Portugal (b. 1787-.?) Maria Carlotta of spain (b.1787-.?) with issues
Pedro Carlos Duque de Beja (b. 1790-.?)
Ferdinand (b. 1792-1795)
Maria Luisa (b. 1796-1800)
Luis Carlos (b.1773-.1778)
Maria Theresa (b.1779-.1790)
Maria Anna (b.1781-.1783).
Maria Theresa, Princess of Pera (b. 1787 -.?)m
Maria Isabella (b.1789-.?)
Maria Luisa (b.1792-?)
Maria Anna Luisa, Princess of Pera (b.1756-.1823) m Felipe Infante of Spain (b.1755-1809) with issues
Luis Pedro Duque de Beja (b.1760-.1812)
Maria Luisa (b.1762-.1769)
Maria Isabella (.1765)
Maria Isabella (b.1741-.1744)
Pedro Carlos, Duke of Beja (b.1744-.1750)
Maria Josefa (.1749)
Maria Luisa (b.1753-.1840) m Fernando Infante of Spain (b.1745-1789) with issues
Charles, Governor of the Netherlands (b. 1724-1781) Elizabeth of Baden-Baden (b.1726-.1786)
Archduke Leopold of Austria (b.1746-.1820) m Princess Friederike of Hesse-Darmstadt (b.1752-.1810) with issues
Archduke Joseph of Austria (b. 1770-.?)Maria Elisabeth of bavaria (b.1770-.?) with issues
Charles Archduke of Austria (b. 1788-.?)
Maria Luisa (b. 1790-?)
Maria Fernanda (b. 1792-?)
Maria Catherine (b. 1795-?)
Maria Elisabeth (.1773-.)
Maria Luisa (.1775-.)
Maria Antonia (. 1780-.)
Maria Elisabeth (b.1748-.1821) m Maximilian IV, Elector of Bavaria **(b. 1748-.1819) with issues
Maximilian I, King of Bavaria (b. 1765-.?) m a) Duchess Friederike Wilhelmine Katharina of Württemberg (b. 1768 – .1795 ), b) Caroline of Baden (b.1776-.?) with issues
Maximilian II, King of Bavaria (b. 1790-.?)
Catharina (b. 1792-.?)
Elisabeth Wilhelmine (b. 1795-?)
Maria Caroline (b. 1798-?)
sophie (b. 1800-.?)
Maria Ludvika (b. 1803-.?)
Maria Christina (b.1767-.1771)
Maria Elisabeth(b.1770-.?) m Archduke Joseph of Austria (b. 1770-.?) with issues
Maria Josefa (b.1774-.?)m Louis Joseph, Duke of Anjou (b.1775-.?)
Maria Amalia (.1780.)
Maria Anna (b.1750-.1810) m Frederick Augustus I king of Saxony (b.1750-.1827) with issues
Frederick August II king of Saxony (b. 1768-.?) m Marie Antoinette ,Mademoiselle de Berry (b. 1772-.?) with issues
Frederick Augustus III of Saxony (b. 1790-.?)
Maria Antoinette (b. 1792-.?)
Francis Xavier (b. 1796-?)
Maria Therese (b. 1800-.?)
Maria Victoria (b.1752-.1840) m Charles II, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz(b.1741-.1816) with issues
Charles II, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (b.1769-.?) m Princess Karoline Amalie of Hesse-Kassel (b.1771-.?) with issues
Charles III, Grand Duke Mecklenburg-Strelitz (b.1792-.?)
Charlotte (b.1772-.?) m Frederick William III of Prussia (b.1770-.?) with issues
Frederick William IV of Prussia (b. 1794-.?)
Charles, Prince of Prussia (b. 1794-?)
Charlotte (b. 1797-?)
Louise (b. 1800-?)
Maria Victoria (b.1775-.?) m Prince Louis Charles of Prussia(d.1796) , b) Prince Adolphus, Duke of Cambridge (b.1474-.?) with issues
Frederick, Prince of Prussia (b. 1794-.?)
Maria Charlotte of Prussia (b. 1796-.?)
George, Duke of Cambridge (b. 1799-.?)
Charlotte (b. 1802-.?)
Elizabeth (b. 1805-.?)
Amalia (b. 1809-?)
Louisa (.1778-.)
Johann (b. 1760-.1765)
* Son of Charles Theodore and Countess Palatine Elisabeth Auguste of Sulzbach
** son of Maximilian III Joseph, Elector of Bavaria and Maria Anna Sophia of Saxony
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Anna Maria Luisa de' Medici (d. 1743) m Johann Wilhelm, Elector Palatine (d. 1716)
Wilhelm, Elettore Palatine (n. 1692-1734)[ Grand Ducke of Tuscany as Guglielmo ] m Elisabetta Farnese (n. 1692-. 1766) in 1708
Johann Wilhelm, Elector Palatine (b. 1709-.?)
Guglielmo, Grand Duke of Tuscany, Duke of Parma b. 1711-?) m
Maria Luisa (b. 1713-.?)
Maria Anna (b. 1716-.?)
Ferdinand (b. 1718-. 1723)
Maria Isabella (b. 1727-.?)
Ferdinand’s chief way of undermining the Mary Tudor the elder/Charles V match was emphasizing her age. She was four years older than Charles and he referred to her as an old maid. Elizabeth of England, being three years younger, would be considered more age appropriate on top of being Ferdinand’s granddaughter.
Also because Charles and Mary were meant to marry in 1514, as soon Charles became of age as Mary was already eighteen, but Elizabeth would still be only 12 at the death of Ferdinand II of Aragon two years later (meaning who also in the worst case Charles would have no reason for delaying the wedding or reneging the agreement)
Burgundy and Lorraine wank from 1475
Mary, Duchess of Burgundy b 1457 m Nicholas I of Lorraine b 1448
Issue:
-Isabella of Burgundy and Lorraine b 1476 m Charles VIII of France b 1470
John, Duke of Burgundy and Lorraine b 1476 m a) Anne of York b 1475 d 1496, b) Joanna of Naples b 1478
-Philip, Duke of Anjou and Brittany b 1478 m Anne I of Brittany b 1477
-Margaret of Burgundy and Lorraine b 1480 m John, Prince of Asturias and Girona b 1477 d 1505
-Stillborn son 1483
-Misscarriage 1485
-Marie of Burgundy and Lorraine b 1486 m Frederick IV, Holy Roman Emperor b 1483
-Rene, Count of Rethel b 1489 m Marie d'Albret, Countess of Rethel b 1491
-Yolande of Burgundy and Lorraine b 1492 m Charles III of Savoy b 1486
Scenario is that Charles the Bold dies in 1475 and Mary weds a surviving Nicholas rather than Maximilian. Their oldest daughter gets married to Charles VIII of France as a peace treaty between Burgundy/Lorraine and France, with some territories as her dowry. Their son and heir marries Anne of York as to have an alliance with England, even if Edward IV is furious over his own daughter being jilted. Anne of York and John has a very cold relationship and she leaves only a daughter behind when she dies. Ferdinand II of Aragon proposes his widowed niece as the negotiations between Margaret and John continues and John's marriage with Joanna is more fruitful and happy. Nicholas, Mary and Francis II comes to a secret agreement that their second son will wed Anne of Brittany and together they retake Anjou after the death of Louis XI. Their third daughter Marie weds the son of Emperor Maximilian and their two youngest becomes Count of Rethel jure uxoris and Duchess of Savoy respectively.
Mary, Duchess of Burgundy b 1457 m Nicholas I of Lorraine b 1448
Issue:
-Isabella of Burgundy and Lorraine b 1476 m Charles VIII of France b 1470
John, Duke of Burgundy and Lorraine b 1476 m a) Anne of York b 1475 d 1496, b) Joanna of Naples b 1478
-Philip, Duke of Anjou and Brittany b 1478 m Anne I of Brittany b 1477
-Margaret of Burgundy and Lorraine b 1480 m John, Prince of Asturias and Girona b 1477 d 1505
-Stillborn son 1483
-Misscarriage 1485
-Marie of Burgundy and Lorraine b 1486 m Frederick IV, Holy Roman Emperor b 1483
-Rene, Count of Rethel b 1489 m Marie d'Albret, Countess of Rethel b 1491
-Yolande of Burgundy and Lorraine b 1492 m Charles III of Savoy b 1486
Scenario is that Charles the Bold dies in 1475 and Mary weds a surviving Nicholas rather than Maximilian. Their oldest daughter gets married to Charles VIII of France as a peace treaty between Burgundy/Lorraine and France, with some territories as her dowry. Their son and heir marries Anne of York as to have an alliance with England, even if Edward IV is furious over his own daughter being jilted. Anne of York and John has a very cold relationship and she leaves only a daughter behind when she dies. Ferdinand II of Aragon proposes his widowed niece as the negotiations between Margaret and John continues and John's marriage with Joanna is more fruitful and happy. Nicholas, Mary and Francis II comes to a secret agreement that their second son will wed Anne of Brittany and together they retake Anjou after the death of Louis XI. Their third daughter Marie weds the son of Emperor Maximilian and their two youngest becomes Count of Rethel jure uxoris and Duchess of Savoy respectively.
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Wouldn't John Hd to be born around 1475? Because that's a 25 year age difference.
That makes more sense, and i assume his mother isabel lived longer since he's still the heir as he died.
His son and heir was also names Juan?
He died a few weeks before Isabella actually, so yeah. He and Margaret had three living children, two sons and a daughter. His eldest son married Catherine of Navarre and became king of Castile, Aragon and Navarre and his younger son used his mother's Anjou claim to Naples and became king over there instead. He married Isabella of Naples b 1500
No idea.
My ideal trastamara scenario: Getting navarre together with castile and aragon in the union of spain, plus another trastamara keeping naples! Can't wait for more thrice king!