List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II

[isabella]

King Sebastian of Portugal has a twin brother


Joao IV, King of Portugal (b. 1554-1600) m Sibylle of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b.1557-1628)

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Sebastian II, King of Portugal (b. 1576-.) m Claude of Lorraine (b.1575-.)​

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Joao V, King of Portugal (b. 1595-.) m Anna of Spain (b.1601-.) with issues ​

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Maria Sibylla (b. 1599-.) m Charles I, King of England and Scotland (b. 1600-.) with issues​

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Alfonso, Duke of Guarda (b.1603-.) m Maria Farnese (b.1603-.) with issues​

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Catharina (b. 1579-.)m Philip III of Spain (b. 1578-.)​

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Philip IV of Spain (b. 1600-.) m Elizabeth from France (b.1602-.) with issues​

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Anna (b.1601) m Joao V, King of Portugal (b. 1595-.) with issues ​

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Maria Claudia (b.1603-.) m Louis XIII, King of France (b. 1601-.) with issues​

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Catherine (b.1607-.) m Ferdinand III, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1608-.)​

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Carlos Infante Cardinal (b. 1610-.)​

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Isabella (b. 1612-.) m Fernando II de' Medici, Duke of Toxana(b. 1610-.) with issues​

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Joao, Duke of Beja (b. 1584-.) m Eleanor de Medici (b. 1591-.)​

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Diego, Duke of Beja (b.1610-.) m Luisa de Guzmán(b.1613-.) with issues ​

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Maria Sibylla (b. 1612-.) m Joao, Duke of Braganza (b.1604-.) with issues ​

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Christina Claudia (b.1619-.) ,nun​

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Extremely unlikely. John IV will marry either Isabella Clara Eugenia or more likely Catalina Micaela of Spain NOT a Cleves girl. And I doubt who a Medici match would be of any interest for Portugal

 

[Salma Amer]

Charles I, King of England and Scotland (b. 1600-.) m Henrietta Maria of France (b.1609-.)

Charles James III, King of England and Scotland (b. 1629-.) m Catherine of Braganza (d. 1705)​

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Charles IV, King of England and Scotland (b. 1663-.)​

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James, Duke of Northumbland (b.1666-.) m Elizabeth Percy (b.1668-.) with issues ​

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Catherine, Princess Royal (b.1670-.) Frederick IV, King of Denmark (b. 1671-.) with issues ​

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Mary, Princess Royal (b.1630-.) m William II, Prince of Orange (b.1626-.1650)​

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William III, Prince of Orange (b. 1648-.) m Elizabeth Charlotte of Palatine (b.1651-.) with issues ​

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Maria Amalie (b. 1650-.)​

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Elizabeth (b.1631-.1644) m ​

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Henry, Duke of York And Albany(b.1633-.) m Maria of Orange-Nassau (b.1642-.) with issues ​

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Mary (b.1663-.)m Charles Elector Palatine (b. 1663-). with issues ​

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Charles, Duke of York and Albany (b.1665-.) Isabella Bennet (b. 1668-.) with issues ​

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Elizabeth (b.1668-.) m Joao V, King of Portugal (b. 1669-.) with issues ​

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Catherine (b.1670-.) William IV, Prince of Orange (b. 1671-.) with issues​

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Anne (b.1675-.)​

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Anne (b. 1635-.) m Prince Rupert of the Rhine, Duke of Cumberland (b.1619-.)​

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Charles Elector Palatine (b.1663-.) m Mary of York (b.1663-.) with issues ​

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Elizabeth (b.1665-.) m ​

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Robert, Duke of Cumberland (b.1671-.) m Lady Diana de Vere (b.1679-.) with issues​

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Catherine (b.1637-1640)​

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Robert, Duke of Gloucester (b.1640-.d.1660) m​

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Henrietta Anne (b.1644-.) m Philippe I, Duke of Orléans (b.1640-.) with issues ​

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[Kellan Sullivan]

and, that is propably the biggest advantage, numerous nobility of Mazovia was regalist and very loyal to their dynasty.

Would we perhaps see more intermarriage with/attempts at inheritance of some of the other Piast lands (Teschen, for instance) down the road? Or would there be no interest because most of those lines are A) Protestant and B) the emperor-as king of Bohemia-can probably nix those marriages?

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Would we perhaps see more intermarriage with/attempts at inheritance of some of the other Piast lands (Teschen, for instance) down the road? Or would there be no interest because most of those lines are A) Protestant and B) the emperor-as king of Bohemia-can probably nix those marriages?

Something like Opole-Racibórz is possible if Habsburgs give it to Piasts as lien (for unpaid dowry-something as characteristic for Habsburgs as Habsburg Jaw ).

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

@Zygmunt Stary
How do you see development of Piast realm? Jagiellons had hereditary Lithuania, Piasts have hereditary Mazovia (and may have both, as Zygmunt August could make his nephew GDL). Mazovia is not GDL, but still has some advantages: is not in danger of being conquered by Muscovites, and, that is propably the biggest advantage, numerous nobility of Mazovia was regalist and very loyal to their dynasty.

Yeah, maybe with continued existence of separate Mazovia, the noble mentality from Poland will affect it less than it did IOTL, but I doubt SA will make his nephew GDL (why didn't he do it for John Sigismund Zapolya IOTL?), but overall regardless of who you put in charge of Poland post-executionist movement as monarch, there will be significant troubles due to the nature of Polish system itself and Polish approach to royal power - the things which were not normal even in Britain, for example yelling at King were normal in Poland - when Paweł Działyński (at the beginning of Sigismund III's reign) was sent to Elizabeth I's court he yelled at her, to which he was used from Poland and it was considered an offense by English court, and Jagiellon GDL didn't stop the process (and even during late-fragmentation period, between Wenceslaus II and Vladislaus Elbow-High's reigns some person reading Kadłubek's chronicle wrote an comment that Poles are used to "play with their princes like one plays with painted eggs"), arguably maybe Jagiellons not being an native dynasty and former pagans hastened it - Casimir III despite having overall weaker international position than Jogaila was more respected by his subjects than Jogaila, for example chronicler Janko of Czarnków thought about Casimir's grandson, Casimir of Słupsk as heir to kingdom of Poland without any written document (in Latin: ": „tanquam haeres et succesor legitimus avi sui, domini Kazimiri olim regis Poloniae…") nor he wanted to have him elected to the throne (the person who is elected isn't "haeres" which means "heir" nor "succesor legitimus" which means "legitimate successor") and thought it is a good thing and sign of King's justice that Casimir was punishing nobles who broke the law by having them either executed by sword or starved to death (and in comparison, around the first free election writer Świętosław Orzelski gloated that it's good that king of Poland can't punish anyone), while Jogaila met opposition in the most mundane things like granting the title of count to his stepson, Jan/John Pilecki, son of Elżbieta/Elizabeth Granowska, Jogaila's wife which theoretically speaking should be within King's rights - there was no written document preventing King from issuing such acts, and if privileges given by the King to the whole estate were valid source of law, he should have power to grant them to individuals as well, but Wojciech Jastrzębiec, chancellor of kingdom of Poland objected on the basis of that act "damaging good of the Kingdom" - it was BS, as Jan Pilecki was Polish noble and granting him the title won't damage kingdom in any meaningful way, nor the precedent was acting against it - if King could grant ducal power to Spytko Melsztyński (he did it with Podolia), he should be able to do grant power of the count to Pilecki, yet Jastrzębiec refused to seal the document - although to Polish nobility's credit, there were some advisors on court advising Jogaila to take away chancellor's seal from Jastrzębiec arguing that the seal came from King anyway and so he should be able to take it away and judging that later on there was popular demand to have Jastrzębiec judged, taking away of the seal won't cause civil war or something, so it was Jogaila's own fault that he didn't take away that seal from Jastrzębiec, but that situation shows how little respect at least some part of the subjects had for Jogaila and later on that view became more popular during the controversion of whether Jogaila's sons should have any right to Poland or not, and during Jagiellon time it got solidified and the acts which led to creation of PLC (I doubt that would be stopped ITTL) were ultimate triumph of that worldview, so overall Piast reign should resemble IOTL Vasa reign with slightly better position of King (but only slightly, it's not like Henrician articles would be avoided, althought they won't be called Henrician, but the law will be the same nor election would be officially limited to royal house).

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Yeah, maybe with continued existence of separate Mazovia, the noble mentality from Poland will affect it less than it did IOTL, but I doubt SA will make his nephew GDL (why didn't he do it for John Sigismund Zapolya IOTL?),

Until 1566 he seemed to preffer Sigismund Hohenzollern, who was not only a German but also Lutheran

 

[Jan Olbracht]

due to the nature of Polish system itself and Polish approach to royal power -

This is not one way street: Andrew II of Hungary had to pass Golden Bull, under Andrew III Hungary was divided between quasi-independent magnate domains, and see what Charles d'Anjou was able to do?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

If a prince of the royal house had bought the rights of the Proprietary Colonies?

THE PRINCE
Prince William Henry (Leicester House, Westminster, 25 November 1743 – Gloucester House, Upper Grosvenor Street, London, 25 August 1805), was a son of Frederick, Prince of Wales, and Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha, and brother of the King George III.
Prince William Henry lived mostly at Kew, in Kew House (also known as the White House), where his father accumulated a menagerie of exotic animals and pursued a passion for botany which he shared with his wife. Frederick taught his family astronomy and encouraged a variety of entertainments including rowing, cricket, outings to fairs and play acting.
In 1751, Frederick caught pneumonia and died. Augusta made her peace with the King, who allowed her to continue bringing up her family at Kew. Prince William Henry and his brother Prince Henry Frederick (7 November 1745 – 18 September 1790) had a house on Kew Green which included a billiard room and a colonnade for fencing lessons. His studies included ancient and modern languages, history and geography. In 1765, he toured Kent and Cornwall and in 1766, Guernsey and Paris.
He had made a Knight of the Garter on 27 May 1762 (invested on 22 September) and was created Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh and Earl of Connaught on 19 November 1764.
Prince William Henry was made Ranger of Hampton Court Park, Ranger and Keeper of Cranborne Chase in Windsor Forest and Lord Warden and Keeper of the New Forest. He became Chancellor of the University of Dublin in 1771. He resided at Cranbourne Lodge.
He wanted to pursue an active military career, but neither his physical stamina nor his mental capacity were sufficient to carry a commander's position on active service. Nevertheless, he became Colonel of the 13th Regiment of Foot in 1766, and of the 3rd Regiment of Foot Guards in 1767. He was promoted lieutenant-general and became Colonel of the 1st Regiment of Foot Guards in 1770. During the War of Bavarian Succession (1777-1779), he longed to serve under Prince Frederick (Later King Frederick II) of Prussia, but his request was declined.

THE LOVERS
In 1764, Prince William Henry started courting Maria Walpole (St. James', Westminster, Middlesex,10 July 1736 – Oxford Lodge, Brompton, Middlesex, 22 August 1807), the Countess Dowager Waldegrave. Maria was the illegitimate daughter of Sir Edward Walpole (1706 – 12 January 1784) and his mistress Dorothy Clement (c. 1715 - c. 1739), and the widow of James Waldegrave, 2nd Earl Waldegrave (4 March 1715 – 13 April 1763). On 6 September 1766, they were married secretly, without witnesses, at the Duke’s house in Pall Mall by Maria’s chaplain, Dr Morton.
Lady Mary Koke wrote that while Lady Waldegrave was a lovely woman, she had little sense, even if blameless in character and conduct. But, she continued, there was no disguising the fact her mother had kept «some infamous house», and «from the top of a cinder cart», she had used her beauty to lure Sir Edward Walpole. The Reynolds portrait, painted in 1762, just before the earl's death, displays the attractions that led the Duke of Gloucester to begin his ardent pursuit of her in 1764. «As she is so young,» wrote Horace Walpole, «she might find as great a match and a younger lover». She did indeed. Maria was claimed to be the most handsome woman in Britain, says Kisler.
Over the subsequent few years, Maria Walpole claimed as many royal privileges as she could, accompanying Gloucester on social occasions and dressing her servants in approximations of royal livery.

King George III did not believe the rumours that William had actually married Maria and sent his brother abroad to visit other European royal families as a diplomatic envoy for the British monarchy in an attempt to extricate him from his entanglement with Maria, whom he felt was a bad influence on him.

THE RUPTURE
When Maria became pregnant, Prince William Henry wrote to the King to acknowledge his marriage. An enquiry into the validity of the marriage was held by the Privy Council on 23 May 1773, just days before the birth of a daughter, Sophia Matilda (29 May 1773, Mayfair, Middlesex, and not at Gloucester House or Lodge, Weymouth). The King was forced to admit the legality of the marriage and the child was given the title of Princess.

But the King was deeply hurt by his favourite brother’s deception. Whilst Prince William Henry had been ranting about the Duke of Cumberland’s shameful marriage to Lady Ann Horton the previous year, he had all the time been married to a commoner himself [The Duke's marriage to a commoner, the widow Anne Horton (1743–1808), on 2 October 1771 caused a rift with the King, and was the catalyst for the Royal Marriages Act 1772 which forbids any descendant of George II to marry without the monarch's permission]. The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester and Edinburgh and their children were banned from the Court and William’s diplomatic missions came to an end. For the sake of economy and William’s health, they went to live on the continent [In early March 1775, Prince William Henry became seriously ill with smallpox. He was so much «shaken in health» that he decided to go abroad, thinking that a change of scenery would be beneficial].

The Gloucesters struggled to maintain the trappings of royal status and a growing family on his existing settlement of £29,000.
A financial crisis of a kind common to eighteenth-century royal dukes made the family flee to Quebec [in reality to Italy].

THE ACQUISITIONS
Meanwhile the Prince William Henry had purchased in May 1771 by Frederick Calvert, 6th Baron Baltimore (6 February 1731/1732 – 4 September 1771) the property of Maryland. This was done against the wishes of Calvert family, though Frederick did provide for cash payments to his sisters, specifically £20,000 to be divided between Louisa and Caroline.

In July 1771 Prince William Henry purchased by Penn family, the proprietors of Pennsylvania, their proprietary rights on the Colony and their property, Penn's private lands and manors. As compensation, the Penns were paid £130,000, a fraction of what the lands were worth, but a surprisingly large sum nonetheless. In additional Prince William Henry undertook to pay a sum in compensation for the loss of the right inherited the right of Pennsylvania and Delaware, which awarded them £4,000 per year in perpetuity.
Richard Penn, Jr. (27 May 1735 – 27 May 1811), the grandson of the William Penn, founder of Pennsylvania, returned to Pennsylvania in the summer of 1772 and was appointed Lieutenant Governor. James Boswell (who was a friend of Penn's) records that in 1789 the influential Earl of Lonsdale urged the government to appoint Penn as American's first Ambassador to the Court of St. James's. Penn sold his Philadelphia city house to Prince William Henry in 1785, renamed Gloucester House. From 1790 to 1800, while Philadelphia was the temporary capital of the kingdom of United States, it served as the executive mansion for the King until the national capital moved to ... in November 1800.

In the 1776, at the death without iusse of Robert Carteret, 3rd Earl Granville, Bailiff of Jersey 1763-1776 (Born on 21 September 1721, bap. 17 Oct 1721 St Martin In The Fields, Westminster; died childless on 13 February 1776 at age 54), bought The lands of the Granville District [King George I appointed royal governors for North and South Carolina, converting the colony’s status to that of a royal colony. In 1729 seven of the Lords Proprietors sold their interests in Carolina to the Crown, and both North Carolina and South Carolina became royal colonies; the Crown has paid them about £22,500, approximately the amount they had spent on the colony. The eighth share was Sir George Carteret's, which had passed to his great-grandson John Carteret, 2nd Earl Granville. He retained title to the lands and quitrents in the northern third of North Carolina, namely ownership of a sixty-mile-wide strip of land in North Carolina adjoining the Virginia boundary, which became known as the Granville District.

IN THE NEW WORLD
The Gloucesters lived in Quebec City, stepping into the centre of Lower Canadian society, and moving easily between circles of French Canadiens, English elites and American Loyalists alike, and they symbolized the Crown as the scaffolding in which modern Canada would emerge. Touring much of Lower Canada, Prince William Henry with his family resided in the heart of the ancient capital of New France (holidaying at nearby Montmorency Falls).

On 15 January 1776 in Charlesbourg, Quebec City, was born the only son of Prince William Henry and Maria Walpole, Prince William Frederick (15 January 1776 - 30 November 1834): he was the first prince of royal blood who was born on American soil.

At the Second Continental Congress, after that Henry Middleton declined the nomination, John Hancock was unanimously elected President on 24 May 1775. Hancock was one of the wealthiest men in the thirteen colonies and emerged as a leading political figure in Boston just as tensions with Great Britain were increasing. Hancock's political success benefited from the support of Samuel Adams. The two men made an unlikely pair: Adams had a somber, Puritan outlook that stood in marked contrast to Hancock's taste for luxury and extravagance; the relationship between the two was symbiotic, with Adams as the mentor and Hancock the protégé.
Hancock's wealth and social standing inspired the confidence of moderate delegates, while his association with Boston radicals made him acceptable to other radicals. His position was somewhat ambiguous, because the role of the president was not fully defined, and like other presidents of Congress, Hancock's authority was mostly limited to that of a presiding officer. He also had to handle a great deal of official correspondence.
On June 1775 George Washington was nominated as commander-in-chief of the army then gathered around Boston: Hancock had shown great disappointment at not getting the command for himself.
Hancock served in Congress through some of the darkest days of the Revolutionary War. The Second Continental Congress was moving towards declaring independence from the British Empire in May 1776, but many delegates lacked the authority from their home governments to take such an action; the resolution of independence was delayed for several weeks as revolutionaries consolidated support for independence in their home governments.
The records of the Second Continental Congress confirm that the need for a declaration of independence was intimately linked with the demands of international relations. On 7 June 1776, Richard Henry Lee tabled a resolution before the Continental Congress declaring the colonies independent. He also urged Congress to resolve «to take the most effectual measures for forming foreign Alliances» and to prepare a plan of confederation for the newly independent states. Lee argued that independence was the only way to ensure a foreign alliance, since no European monarchs would deal with America if they remained Britain's colonists, which prompted Hancock, with the support of the Committee of Five, to call to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Prince William Henry.

The Second Congress finally approved the resolution of independence on July 2, 1776 and designated and proclaimed Prince William Henry as Governor in Chief of the Dominion of New England (Province of New Hampshire, Province of Massachusetts Bay, Colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Colony of Connecticut, Province of New York, Province of New Jersey and the Lower Counties on Delaware) and Lord Protector of the Continental Congress of the United Colonies of America. Congress next turned its attention to a formal explanation of this decision, the United States Declaration of Independence, which was approved on July 4 and published soon thereafter.

Prince William Henry was proclaimed Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of the United States of America on 15 November 1777 and then King of United States of America [as William the first] (proclaimed 4 March 1789, crowned at City Hall, New York City, on 30 April 1789).

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View attachment 248600

Inspired by this post

William I, King of the United States of America [1789-1805], Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of British North America [1777-1789], formerly Duke of Gloucester & Edinburgh (1743-1805) m: 1766 Mary "Maria" Walpole (1739-1807)

Sophia Matilda (1773-1844) m: 1791[1] William IV, King of Great Britain & Ireland (1765-1837)​

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Sophia Charlotte (1792-1819)​

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George V, King of Great Britain & Ireland (1795-1841) m: 1822 Feodore of Leiningen [2] (b.1807)​

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Mary (1798-1804)​

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William Frederick, Duke of York (1799-1849)​

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Elizabeth Augusta (b.1800) m: 1818 Leopold IV, Duke of Anhalt (1794-1881)​

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Caroline Augusta (1774-1775)​

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William II, King of the United States of America [1805-1834] (1776-1834) m: 1793 Auguste of Nassau-Üsingen [3] (1778-1846)​

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William, Duke of Maryland (1796-1801)​

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George, Count Palatine of Providence (1798-1830) m: 1815 Friederike of Prussia [4] (1796-1850)​

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William III. King of the United States of America [from 1834] (b.1817)​

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Stillborn Child (1818)​

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Elizabeth Georgiana (1820-1822)​

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Frederica Amalie Augusta (b.1822)​

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Maria Anna (b.1825)​

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William, Duke of Virginia (b.1800) m: 1826 Elisabeth Catherine Athénaïs, Duchesse de Dillengen [5] (1810-1895)​

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William Philip (b.1829)​

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Louis Charles (b.1831)​

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Cecilia Elizabeth (b.1834)​

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Mary Amelia (b.1836)​

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George Louis (b.1840)​

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Mary (1801-1808)​

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Augusta Carolina (b.1804) m: 1831 Karl, Prince of Solms-Braunfels [6] (b.1812)​

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Karl Ludwig, Prince of Solms-Braunfels (b.1831)​

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Luise Auguste Melanie (b.1834)​

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Alexander Friedrich, Prince of Solms-Braunfels (b.1838)​

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[1] this match was considered OTL as well
[2] after Charlotte's death and the "writing on the wall", I have no doubt that Leopold of Coburg is going to try to "keep" his family in power. Given that there was a rumour- before he married Charlotte- that he was actually going to propose to either Sophia of Gloucester or William's sister Mary (ignoring the age-gap), I could see Leopold batting his eyelashes at Sophia and persuading her this is a "good idea".
[3] while a minor princess from an even more minor state, Auguste isn't "unimportant". Her maternal uncle, the count of Waldeck, is serving in and reforming the Portuguese army; her sister marries the prince of Baden who will become uncle to the Russian empress, the queen of Sweden, duchess of Brunswick among others. Her uncle on her paternal side is well-esconced at the French court of Louis XVI. And lastly, she shares her surname (Nassau) with both William the Silent and William III, plus however many towns/counties/places in the United States are named after them
[4] daughter of the duchess of Cumberland and her first husband
[5] Elisabeth's title is in the French peerage (courtesy of Louis XVI creating her paternal grandmother that in 1784/1789). As to who she is, Elise is the only heiress of Ludwig Karl, Prince of Nassau-Ottweiler (despite being the only legitimately born son of his father's second marriage, he was cut out of inheriting Nassau after the death of his older half-brother on grounds of his parents' marriage being morganatic; ironically, they accepted his older half-brother's marrying down as "dynastic". Ludwig Karl then went into Napoleonic service and died at Vilnius during the retreat from Moscow). Elisabeth's mother is the daughter of Queen Augusta's half-brother, the count of Weilnau, and his wife, Maria Anna Josepha of Thurn and Taxis. OTL Elisabeth also married in America (Philadelphia to be precise)
[6] better known as "Texas Carl", son of the duchess of Cumberland's second marriage. The marriage caused a scandal, due to the age gap, with members on both sides of the family breaking off all contact until the 1840s

@The_Most_Happy @DrakeRlugia @Sarthak @Nuraghe

 

[Dragonboy]

Inspired by this post

William I, King of the United States of America [1789-1805], Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of British North America [1777-1789], formerly Duke of Gloucester & Edinburgh (1743-1805) m: 1766 Mary "Maria" Walpole (1739-1807)

Sophia Matilda (1773-1844) m: 1791[1] William IV, King of Great Britain & Ireland (1765-1837)​

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Sophia Charlotte (1792-1819)​

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George V, King of Great Britain & Ireland (1795-1841) m: 1822 Feodore of Leiningen [2] (b.1807)​

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Mary (1798-1804)​

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William Frederick, Duke of York (1799-1849)​

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Elizabeth Augusta (b.1800) m: 1818 Leopold IV, Duke of Anhalt (1794-1881)​

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Caroline Augusta (1774-1775)​

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William II, King of the United States of America [1805-1834] (1776-1834) m: 1793 Auguste of Nassau-Üsingen [3] (1778-1846)​

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William, Duke of Maryland (1796-1801)​

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George, Count Palatine of Providence (1798-1830) m: 1815 Friederike of Prussia [4] (1796-1850)​

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William III. King of the United States of America [from 1834] (b.1817)​

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Stillborn Child (1818)​

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Elizabeth Georgiana (1820-1822)​

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Frederica Amalie Augusta (b.1822)​

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Maria Anna (b.1825)​

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William, Duke of Virginia (b.1800) m: 1826 Elisabeth Catherine Athénaïs, Duchesse de Dillengen [5] (1810-1895)​

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William Philip (b.1829)​

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Louis Charles (b.1831)​

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Cecilia Elizabeth (b.1834)​

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Mary Amelia (b.1836)​

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George Louis (b.1840)​

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Mary (1801-1808)​

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Augusta Carolina (b.1804) m: 1831 Karl, Prince of Solms-Braunfels [6] (b.1812)​

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Karl Ludwig, Prince of Solms-Braunfels (b.1831)​

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Luise Auguste Melanie (b.1834)​

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Alexander Friedrich, Prince of Solms-Braunfels (b.1838)​

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[1] this match was considered OTL as well
[2] after Charlotte's death and the "writing on the wall", I have no doubt that Leopold of Coburg is going to try to "keep" his family in power. Given that there was a rumour- before he married Charlotte- that he was actually going to propose to either Sophia of Gloucester or William's sister Mary (ignoring the age-gap), I could see Leopold batting his eyelashes at Sophia and persuading her this is a "good idea".
[3] while a minor princess from an even more minor state, Auguste isn't "unimportant". Her maternal uncle, the count of Waldeck, is serving in and reforming the Portuguese army; her sister marries the prince of Baden who will become uncle to the Russian empress, the queen of Sweden, duchess of Brunswick among others. Her uncle on her paternal side is well-esconced at the French court of Louis XVI. And lastly, she shares her surname (Nassau) with both William the Silent and William III, plus however many towns/counties/places in the United States are named after them
[4] daughter of the duchess of Cumberland and her first husband
[5] Elisabeth's title is in the French peerage (courtesy of Louis XVI creating her paternal grandmother that in 1784/1789). As to who she is, Elise is the only heiress of Ludwig Karl, Prince of Nassau-Ottweiler (despite being the only legitimately born son of his father's second marriage, he was cut out of inheriting Nassau after the death of his older half-brother on grounds of his parents' marriage being morganatic; ironically, they accepted his older half-brother's marrying down as "dynastic". Ludwig Karl then went into Napoleonic service and died at Vilnius during the retreat from Moscow). Elisabeth's mother is the daughter of Queen Augusta's half-brother, the count of Weilnau, and his wife, Maria Anna Josepha of Thurn and Taxis. OTL Elisabeth also married in America (Philadelphia to be precise)
[6] better known as "Texas Carl", son of the duchess of Cumberland's second marriage. The marriage caused a scandal, due to the age gap, with members on both sides of the family breaking off all contact until the 1840s

@The_Most_Happy @DrakeRlugia @Sarthak @Nuraghe

Love this

 

[vandevere]

Love this

Me too!

 

[Salma Amer]

John Joseph of Austria (b.1629-.1679) m Marie Anne Mancini (b.1649-.1719)

Charles III Joseph (b.1668-1704) m Maria Antonia, Queen of Spain (b. 1669-1715)​

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Philip V of Spain (b. 1690-.) m Maria Magdalena of Austria (b.1689-.)​

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Maria Anna (b.1692-?) m Joao V, King of Portugal (b. 1689-.) with issues ​

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Carlos Infante of Spain (b.1694-1700)​

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Maria Margaret (b. 1698-.) m Leopold II, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1701-.) with issues ​

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Juan Joseph, ruler of the Netherlands (b. 1702-.) m Maria Anna of Palatine (b.1710-.) *with issues ​

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Juan (b.1670-.1700) m Catalina de Haro y Guzmán, 8th Marquess of Carpio (b.1672-.)​

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Carlos Felipe 9th Marquess of Carpio (n. 1691-.) m Juana de la Cueva , VI marquesa de Cadreita, VI condesa de la Torre (b.1690-.) with issues ​

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María Antonia (n. 1695-.) m Carlos Ambrosio Gaetano Spínola de la Cerda ,V duque de Sesto, duque de Venafro y de San Severino, y V marqués de los Balbases, (b.1696-.) with issues ​

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María Luisa (b. 1698-.)​

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Catalina (b. 1700-.)​

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Daughter of Wilhelm Elector Palatine and Duke of Toxana (son of Maria Anna Medici) and Isabella Farnes​

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[isabella]

John Joseph of Austria (b.1629-.1679) m Marie Anne Mancini (b.1649-.1719)

Charles Joseph (b.1668-1704) m Maria I Antonia, Queen of Spain (b. 1669-1715)​

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Philip V of Spain (b. 1690-.)​

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Maria Anna (b.1692-?)​

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Carlos Infante of Spain (b.1694-1700)​

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Maria Margaret (b. 1697-.)​

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Juan Joseph, ruler of the Netherlands (b. 1702-.)​

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Juan (b.1670-.1700) m Catalina de Haro y Guzmán 8th Marquess of Carpio (b.1672-.)​

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Carlos Felipe (n. 1691-.)​

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María Antonia (n. 1693-.)​

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María Luisa (n. 1697-.)​

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Catalina (n. 1699-.)​

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Unless Charles II of Spain died after him Charles Joseph would be Charles III of Spain and Maria Antonia would most likely use either Maria Antonia or Antonia as Queen of Spain (so she would be either Antonia, Queen of Spain or Maria Antonia, Queen of Spain without any numerals as she would get it only when another Antonia/maria Antonia ruled Spain in her own right)

 

[Violet Rose Lily]

POD: King James IV and Queen Margaret's children live.

King James IV (March 17 1473 – September 9 1513) m. Margaret Tudor (November 28 1489 – October 18 1541)
1. King James V (February 21 1507-Febuary 27 1548 ) m. Renee of France (October 25 1510-June 12 1575) [1].
2. Princess Margaret (July 15 1508- August 12 1568 ) m. Henri of Navarre (1503-1555) [2].
3. Prince Arthur, Duke of Ross (October 20 1509-July 14 1550) m. Mary Howard (1519-1557) [3]
4. Prince Robert, Earl of Mar (April 10 1512-December 14 1542) m. Margaret Eskine (October 8 1515 – May 5 1572). [4].
5. Princess Elizabeth (April 30 1514-November 10 1552). [5].
6. Prince Alexander, Earl of Garioch (April 30 1514-December 18 1575) [6].

1. While he was still underage when his father died, James V still had a less chaotic regency, mostly because it was shorter. Unlike his brother, he accepted a French proxy instead of pushing for a princess. He and Renee have a good marriage despite their different opinions on religion.

2. To solidify the French alliance in the Italian War of the 1520s, the Duke of Albany suggested the marriage between Henri of Navarre and the young princess Margaret.

3. Arthur visited his royal uncle's court sometime in the late 1530s when Mary Howard was newly widowed. They fell in love and absconded to Scotland much to Henry's anger. King James outwardly rebuked his brother but privately praised his daring.

4. The OTL King James wanted to marry her so I figured as the third son, he would be allowed to have a domestic match. Or he could have followed his mother's footsteps and eloped.

5. I cheated here as I figured that Elizabeth being carried to term would butterfly away Alexander so I decided to make her his twin instead. Drawing a blank on who she could marry. Any suggestions?

6. Either never married or joined the church.

 

[Dragonboy]

POD: King James IV and Queen Margaret's children live.

King James IV (March 17 1473 – September 9 1513) m. Margaret Tudor (November 28 1489 – October 18 1541)
1. King James V (February 21 1507-Febuary 27 1548 ) m. Mary of Bourbon (October 29 1515- September 28 1538 ) (a) Mary of Guise (November 22 1515-June 11 1560). [1]
2. Princess Margaret (July 15 1508- August 12 1568 ) m. Henri of Navarre (1503-1555) [2].
3. Prince Arthur, Duke of Ross (October 20 1509-July 14 1550) m. Mary Howard (1519-1557) [3]
4. Prince Robert, Earl of Mar (April 10 1512-December 14 1542) m. Margaret Eskine (October 8 1515 – May 5 1572). [4].
5. Princess Elizabeth (April 30 1514-November 10 1552). [5].
6. Prince Alexander, Earl of Garioch (April 30 1514-December 18 1575) [6].

1. While he was still underage when his father died, James V still had a less chaotic regency, mostly because it was shorter. Unlike his brother, he accepted a French proxy instead of pushing for a princess. Unfortunately Mary of Bourbon died early in their marriage and he then married Mary of Guise in 1540.

2. To solidify the French alliance in the Italian War of the 1520s, the Duke of Albany suggested the marriage between Henri of Navarre and the young princess Margaret.

3. Arthur visited his royal uncle's court sometime in the late 1530s when Mary Howard was newly widowed. They fell in love and absconded to Scotland much to Henry's anger. King James outwardly rebuked his brother but privately praised his daring.

4. The OTL King James wanted to marry her so I figured as the third son, he would be allowed to have a domestic match. Or he could have followed his mother's footsteps and eloped.

5. I cheated here as I figured that Elizabeth being carried to term would butterfly away Alexander so I decided to make her his twin instead. Drawing a blank on who she could marry. Any suggestions?

6. Either never married or joined the church.

Great work, Alexander will definitely join the church.

And moe children means more security when the tudor line becomes no more after elizabeth I.

 

[isabella]

POD: King James IV and Queen Margaret's children live.

King James IV (March 17 1473 – September 9 1513) m. Margaret Tudor (November 28 1489 – October 18 1541)
1. King James V (February 21 1507-Febuary 27 1548 ) m. Mary of Bourbon (October 29 1515- September 28 1538 ) (a) Mary of Guise (November 22 1515-June 11 1560). [1]
2. Princess Margaret (July 15 1508- August 12 1568 ) m. Henri of Navarre (1503-1555) [2].
3. Prince Arthur, Duke of Ross (October 20 1509-July 14 1550) m. Mary Howard (1519-1557) [3]
4. Prince Robert, Earl of Mar (April 10 1512-December 14 1542) m. Margaret Eskine (October 8 1515 – May 5 1572). [4].
5. Princess Elizabeth (April 30 1514-November 10 1552). [5].
6. Prince Alexander, Earl of Garioch (April 30 1514-December 18 1575) [6].

1. While he was still underage when his father died, James V still had a less chaotic regency, mostly because it was shorter. Unlike his brother, he accepted a French proxy instead of pushing for a princess. Unfortunately Mary of Bourbon died early in their marriage and he then married Mary of Guise in 1540.

2. To solidify the French alliance in the Italian War of the 1520s, the Duke of Albany suggested the marriage between Henri of Navarre and the young princess Margaret.

3. Arthur visited his royal uncle's court sometime in the late 1530s when Mary Howard was newly widowed. They fell in love and absconded to Scotland much to Henry's anger. King James outwardly rebuked his brother but privately praised his daring.

4. The OTL King James wanted to marry her so I figured as the third son, he would be allowed to have a domestic match. Or he could have followed his mother's footsteps and eloped.

5. I cheated here as I figured that Elizabeth being carried to term would butterfly away Alexander so I decided to make her his twin instead. Drawing a blank on who she could marry. Any suggestions?

6. Either never married or joined the church.

I think who Mary of Bourbon is too young for this James V. Either Renee of France or Isabella of Navarre as proxy would be likelier matches for him

 

[Salma Amer]

Sebastian I, King of Portugal, has a twin


Joao IV of Portugal (b. 1554-1593) m Isabella Clara Eugenia Spain (b. 1566-1633)

Sebastian II, King of Portugal (b. 1586-.) m Constance of Austria (b. 1588-.) ​

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Isabella (b. 1606-.) m Charles I, King of England and Scotland (b. 1600-.) in 1622 with issues ​

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Joao V, King of Portugal (b. 1608-.) m Margaret of Spain (b. 1610-.) with issues ​

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Diego, Duke of Guarda (b. 1612-.) m ​

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Miguel Infante Cardinal (b. 1615-.) ​

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Maria (b. 1620-.), nun ​

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philip (b. 1623-. d. 1630)​

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Catharina (b. 1589-.1618) mPhilippe Emmanuel, Duke of Savoy (b. 1586-.)​

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Carlo Emanuele, Duke of Savoy (b. 1607-.) m Christine of France (b. 1606-.) with issues ​

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Stillborn daughter ​

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Stillborn son ​

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Maria Catherine (b. 1615-.) ​

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Philippi (b.d. 1618) ​

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Alfonso, Duke of Beja (b. 1593-.) m ​

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[Zygmunt Stary]

Until 1566 he seemed to preffer Sigismund Hohenzollern, who was not only a German but also Lutheran

He could still done it after 1566, tho with Piast candidate he'd have probably more time to prepare.

This is not one way street: Andrew II of Hungary had to pass Golden Bull, under Andrew III Hungary was divided between quasi-independent magnate domains, and see what Charles d'Anjou was able to do?

Polish counterpart of that process is more or less what Casimir III did, during late-fragmentation the aforementioned anonymous commenter said "Poles are used to play with they princes like one plays with painted eggs" but Casimir was ruling very autocratically (starving Borkowic to death, killing Baryczka, passing whatever laws he wanted to with no opposition) and after his death men like Janko of Czarnków were ready to fight for hereditary claim of his grandson so it can be said he achieved comparable success to Charles d'Anjou in internal politics, the problem is under Jagiellons it was stopped and erosion of royal power and respect society had for their Kings skyrocketed to the point of yelling at King in public being normalized - even nowadays, if someone yelled at Andrzej Duda in public it'd be considered highly rude, so it shows how bad state of monarchy in Poland was already in first free elections period (, and I doubt dynastic POD would be able to change things at that stage (and probably better POD for that is Sigismund II having male issue) and probably besides Mazovia (if Piast succesor of SIIA isn't made GDL during Sigismund's lifetime) his reign and state would look like Sigismund III's, because why would subjects in Crown respect him more than SIII? Piast cause was long lost by that time.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

He could still done it after 1566, tho with Piast candidate he'd have probably more time to prepare.



Polish counterpart of that process is more or less what Casimir III did, during late-fragmentation the aforementioned anonymous commenter said "Poles are used to play with they princes like one plays with painted eggs" but Casimir was ruling very autocratically (starving Borkowic to death, killing Baryczka, passing whatever laws he wanted to with no opposition) and after his death men like Janko of Czarnków were ready to fight for hereditary claim of his grandson so it can be said he achieved comparable success to Charles d'Anjou in internal politics,

Opponents of succession of Zofia Holszańska's sons also claimed to protect hereditary rights of their older half-sister, who was descendant of Casimir the Great, so it would be better for Jagiełło if she either was a boy or not born at all.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

so it was Jogaila's own fault that he didn't take away that seal from Jastrzębiec,

I wonder what would've happened if he had taken the seal?

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

I wonder what would've happened if he had taken the seal?

Probably future chancellors wouldn't have power to not grant the seal to King's decision.

Opponents of succession of Zofia Holszańska's sons also claimed to protect hereditary rights of their older half-sister, who was descendant of Casimir the Great, so it would be better for Jagiełło if she either was a boy or not born at all.

Absolutely yes, probably if she was born a boy, succesion controversies from second half of Jagiełło's reign would be avoided and maybe the process I was talking about would be stopped.