Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread
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In January 1759 (before the fall of quebec), Etienne de Silhouette (in the 1750s, at times, main royal comissioner of the French indies company, minister of finances, and main negociator (with De la Gallissonniere) of the pre-7YW North american boundary comission) Proposed to exchange Canada for Georgia:
"Canada, landlocked between the English colonies, a bone of contention and the object of ambition for the British nation [...] is not such an advantageous settlement for France that she could not be well compensated by an exchange of possession with England, into which the colony of Canada could be transplanted: this is Georgia. [...] The air there is more temperate, and more analogous to that of France than is that of Canada; the country is more susceptible to cultivation and various productions, which would procure a more extensive trade, increase the wealth of the inhabitants [...] by bringing them closer and reuniting them in some way with the colony of Louisiana. [...] An exchange treaty [...] would establish in an invariable manner the limits of the respective possessions, would cut off the root of future claims and could in a few years procure inestimable riches for France; [...] by the new position of the colony of Canada, [...] this nation would become, so to speak, the mistress of navigation of the Gulf of Mexico and the most respectable of all those of Europe established in America."
Mémoire de Silhouette, p.256.
Now this probably was utopian in the context of the war, and well, Silhouette was not known for carrying through his proposals (his name, after all, became a French and English word...); but he was important, and as the main French negociator for the anglo french boundary comission, had the 7YW in america been delayed, it's likely this would have been seriously proposed by the French.
For comparison, in 1760, Canada had 60-70,000 frenchmen, nearly entirely free; Georgia had 10,000 americans , 2/3 free. Both colonies had vast native populations who controled most of the territory.
"Canada, landlocked between the English colonies, a bone of contention and the object of ambition for the British nation [...] is not such an advantageous settlement for France that she could not be well compensated by an exchange of possession with England, into which the colony of Canada could be transplanted: this is Georgia. [...] The air there is more temperate, and more analogous to that of France than is that of Canada; the country is more susceptible to cultivation and various productions, which would procure a more extensive trade, increase the wealth of the inhabitants [...] by bringing them closer and reuniting them in some way with the colony of Louisiana. [...] An exchange treaty [...] would establish in an invariable manner the limits of the respective possessions, would cut off the root of future claims and could in a few years procure inestimable riches for France; [...] by the new position of the colony of Canada, [...] this nation would become, so to speak, the mistress of navigation of the Gulf of Mexico and the most respectable of all those of Europe established in America."
Mémoire de Silhouette, p.256.
Now this probably was utopian in the context of the war, and well, Silhouette was not known for carrying through his proposals (his name, after all, became a French and English word...); but he was important, and as the main French negociator for the anglo french boundary comission, had the 7YW in america been delayed, it's likely this would have been seriously proposed by the French.
For comparison, in 1760, Canada had 60-70,000 frenchmen, nearly entirely free; Georgia had 10,000 americans , 2/3 free. Both colonies had vast native populations who controled most of the territory.
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The "Five Fingers of Tibet", Maoist China's irredentist claims to Ladakh, Nepal, Sikkim, Bhutan, and Arunachal north of the McMahon Line
Has there been any historical proposals for an independent Jewish state in Europe?
There have been historically-Jewish (ruled) states in Europe. Aside from the Khazar Khanate (and proposals for Jewish Crimea), there's also Septimania.
I'd love to see more scenarios with Septimania, tbh. It's an interesting story. As a region on the Frankish-Andalusian Frontier, Septimania was subject to raids and incursions by both Muslims and Christians, Umayyads and Carolingians -- but neither side was able to enforce their authority on the region. So, Pepin the Short appointed Makhir ben Habibai -- a Jewish scholar -- to be the hereditary lord of Septimania. Septimania became an autonomous region, paying tribute to and receiving patronage from both the Moors and the Franks, and becoming a home for Jews as well as Arian Christians from the Visigothic Kingdom, and surviving Gothic pagans.
Of course, Muslim Andalusia would be generally more tolerant of Jews than mediaeval Christendom -- but it seems that early on, that wasn't always the case, as a Frankish king was willing to grant a Jewish rabbi a feudal title.
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Not any post-Zionism. Zionism is based on the idea that the Jews are no longer safe in Europe, so a European Jewish state would be counter to Herzl's ideas.
Filibusters and financiers; the story of William Walker and his associates
by Scroggs, William O. (William Oscar), 1879-1957
Worth nothing this seems to be a heavily speculative history.
League of East European States
Jewish autonomy in Crimea
Jewish Autonomous Oblast if placed in European Russia.
I like how all states in South America are included/have been suggested at some point.
Imagine if they tried to force OTL's Israel into a place like Mindanao.... *mass-death scenario intensifies*
This is totentanz0's whole gimmick - he puts the maximum amount of real-life proposals into a single map as possible, of course sometimes these become contradictory and overlapping, so he then puts (or used to put) a long description of all of his sources for download, in fact, totentanz0 is the one who inspired me to become a map-maker myself!
I 100% remember seeing a 1930s booklet showing a world map with proposed Jewish states, they are more or less consistent with the map that totentanz0 made, and I am 80% sure that I remember viewing a proposed Jewish state in fucking Kashmir of all places!, does anyone in here knows which map I am talking about?
Was it Kashmir or Sarhad/NWFP? There is an area west of Peshawar that the Mughals called the Jewish Desert, and there exists lore around the alleged Israelite origins of the Pashtuns.
I found it!, also I misremembered it, the map was not all of Kashmir as a whole, but rather, an area that is more or less half of Badakhshan, a small portion of Kyrgyzstan, a small portion of Xinjiang, and a tiny portion of northern Kashmir, the map might have already been posted in this thread before, but here it is anyways:
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This is kind of hilarious. I forget who called this trope "Pin the Zion on the map," but the name really applies here.I found it!, also I misremembered it, the map was not all of Kashmir as a whole, but rather, an area that is more or less half of Badakhshan, a small portion of Kyrgyzstan, a small portion of Xinjiang, and a tiny portion of northern Kashmir, the map might have already been posted in this thread before, but here it is anyways:
I also know that there's an Afghan legend that the Pashtun tribes are descended from the lost Tribes of Israel. The Pashtun tribes trace their legendary heritage to Qais Abdur Rashid, said to be descended from the Tribe of Benjamin (one of the Lost Tribes after the Babylonian conquest of the Israelites). As I understand it, this is related to one regional interpretation of the Islamic apocalypse -- that the Mahdi shall arrive in Khorasan (a region which more or less corresponds to modern-day Afghanistan), rally the Faithful, and lead a jihad to liberate Jerusalem from al-Masih ad-Dajjal (the False Messiah). So not only is the liberation of Palestine seen as the fulfillment of divine prophecy, but also a return to the Promised Land for the Pashtuns.
Of course, this is all legend. While parts about Khorasan's role in the Apocalypse, the Mahdi, etc are rooted in hadith and are taken very seriously, the claims of tribal descent from the ancient Israelites are less so; it's sort of on the level of the Romans being descended from Trojans. But if a Jewish homeland was carved out of Pashtunistan, I can see this story becoming a lot more central to Afghan national identity, as the land is disputed by Jewish and Pashtun nationalists.